Does anyone really know how long rods or flux core wire last

[Gary Fowler]

Welding rods are like diesel, stored correctly they last forever. The first thing I got after my welding machine was a Phoenix Dry Rod oven. It will hold 350# of rods if full and has 6 dividers in it to keep the sizes separated. It is only for low hydrogen rods. I keep the thermostat set at 300F all the time.
Cellulose coated rods like 6010 just need to be kept dry, DO NOT heat them. They actually need about 50% or more moisture content in order to run properly. If they get too dry, the flux will finger nail on you (burn off to one side). As long as the wire is rust free, welding rods will work fine. Same with MIG, TIG and FCAW wire.
So: how long do welding rods/wire last? When properly stored, forever.

If I had all the rods that I have thrown away during my 40 year construction career as QC manager, I could supply every welder on TBN with a lifetime supply. I routinely checked gang boxes for improperly stored rods and if I found low hydrogen (7018 mostly) in a gang box they went in the trash. Even overnight, in the gulf coast weather the wire under the flux would rust. Welders were notorious for just sticking his 10# rod oven in the gang box and not taking out the rods and putting them back in the storage oven. Since all the welders used rods from the rod over, structural and pressure piping welders, I couldn't take a chance on them being contaminated and used on pressure vessel or pressure piping welds. 6010 rods generally were ok left in a gang box as long as they dont get wet. Repeated wetting or prolonged storage in open atmosphere would leave a white coating on the flux which is a good indication the the wire underneath may have a slight rust coating. Any rusty wire is useless due to forming porosity when welded.

 

[A-one]

What about self shielding flux core wire (NR211, NR212) in a filing cabinet in the garage. I usually just buy a 10 pound spool. Never really noticed any problems with it as long as I had the little 70 amp Campbell Hausfeld welder. When I got my hands on a Lincoln 180, porosity everywhere.

I haven't figured out if it's the wire (no rust), more heat that I haven't learned to control, the fact that I've had the 211 since last summer, or the bed frames that I'm always welding on. I mostly have trouble with 211. I haven't tried changing the contact tip. I've read that a worn contact tip will give fits.

The 212 welds fine most of the time. When I do get a little porosity with 212, I know it's my angle or contact tip to work distance. Forget it. I like the 212 better anyway.

 

[2Strokin]

What about self shielding flux core wire (NR211, NR212) in a filing cabinet in the garage. I usually just buy a 10 pound spool. Never really noticed any problems with it as long as I had the little 70 amp Campbell Hausfeld welder. When I got my hands on a Lincoln 180, porosity everywhere.

I haven't figured out if it's the wire (no rust), more heat that I haven't learned to control, the fact that I've had the 211 since last summer, or the bed frames that I'm always welding on. I mostly have trouble with 211. I haven't tried changing the contact tip. I've read that a worn contact tip will give fits.

The 212 welds fine most of the time. When I do get a little porosity with 212, I know it's my angle or contact tip to work distance. Forget it. I like the 212 better anyway.

212 is my favorite wire. Smooth as buttah.

 

[Gary Fowler]

I keep my flux core wire in my rod oven when not in use. I turned the thermostat back a bit from the 300F that I usually keep it back to 275F. I was afraid it would melt the plastic spool.

 

[Yomax4]

Most quality cored wire is baked as the final step. The core will take in moisture over time. If you have a rod oven as stated above you are in for clear sailing. Otherwise there is a shelf life and the wire will tell you when it has gone bad. I don't keep a lot of cored wire around but the 71T-11 I keep for a rainy day gets vac sealed with desiccant packs.

 

[California]

Most quality cored wire is baked as the final step. The core will take in moisture over time. If you have a rod oven as stated above you are in for clear sailing. Otherwise there is a shelf life and the wire will tell you when it has gone bad. I don't keep a lot of cored wire around but the 71T-11 I keep for a rainy day gets vac sealed with desiccant packs.

A while back I had a flux-core wire snarl so I pulled out 20 ft, cut it off, and rethreaded. This fresh wire welded better than what I discarded. I think you're right and moisture had worked way down into the wire from its tip.

 

[Yomax4]

Cored wire isn't easy to make either. It's not all that rare to get to a place in your spool that has little to no core for an inch or even a foot. You may think it's you but not always.

 

[A-one]

212 is my favorite wire. Smooth as buttah.

That stuff does lay down very good. I had some .045 212 on my machine in the process of making a bbq grill from a 60 gallon air tank. Thin material being welded. Probably nothing thicker than 10 gauge and that was the tank itself. Welds went in really nice. I just always end up putting more bead in than I need to. I have to run it a little hotter (wire feed set a little higher).

But I scored a 325 gallon tank for free a couple of days ago. Took the 212 off to run the 211, and here comes there ugly welds with the little bubble at the end. Even swapped contact tips. No nevermind though. I checked every 211 weld with a 3 pound hammer. Ugly, but seems solid. That 325 gallon tank deserves the 212 and I have some questions concerning it that deserve another thread.

 

[2Strokin]

That stuff does lay down very good. I had some .045 212 on my machine in the process of making a bbq grill from a 60 gallon air tank. Thin material being welded. Probably nothing thicker than 10 gauge and that was the tank itself. Welds went in really nice. I just always end up putting more bead in than I need to. I have to run it a little hotter (wire feed set a little higher).

But I scored a 325 gallon tank for free a couple of days ago. Took the 212 off to run the 211, and here comes there ugly welds with the little bubble at the end. Even swapped contact tips. No nevermind though. I checked every 211 weld with a 3 pound hammer. Ugly, but seems solid. That 325 gallon tank deserves the 212 and I have some questions concerning it that deserve another thread.

I order my 212 .045 from Hone Depot. Their price is as good as anyone.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

 

[A-one]

I order my 212 .045 from Hone Depot. Their price is as good as anyone.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

I bought mine off Ebay. At the time, I needed the liner, roller, and contact tips. I'll get to shop around on the next purchase.

 

[Gary Fowler]

When I bought my acreage and built my shop the first thing I bought was a Phoenix dry rod electrode oven. I found a good deal on a #300 capacity one from a shop that was closing. It is well insulated, thermostat controlled and has built in shelves to keep the rods separated by size and alloy. I think it was $150. I have rods in it from 2010 and no rust or problems. My cellulose coated (E-6010) just get stored in a plastic box to keep them dry and clean. I dont use much of those, I think maybe I have used 60 pounds in 10 years.
Now that I have my TIG machine, I have to adjust the rod oven to store my TIG wire so it doesnt rust. That is going to mean cutting them in half to store in the rod oven since I dont have an old refrigerator with a light bulb.

When I worked as a welding supervisor, I had the carpenters build an insulated shed to store all my electrodes and wire in. I could store well over 2000 pounds. I found the best thing to use was an electric 1500 watt heater. It keep all the wire toasty warm and moisture free. ONLY unopened cans of stick electrodes were keep there, once opened they went in a 300F hot box. TIG wire was keep there after it was opened and welders had to return unused wire daily. I never had problems with rusty wire or low hydrogen causing porosity.
A proper rod storage oven is worth the cost of electricity to run it most especially with the cost of welding rods today.

I remember when a 50# can of Atom Arc 7018 was only $30, man those were the days. Atom Arc was the top of the line in low hydrogen rods back in the 70's and 80's. Then they moved to Mexico and the quality went down hill.

 

[A-one]

Yep, it was the wire. Switched to an unopened roll that I bought from the man that sold me my first welder (2 years ago), and it welds just fine. He's since switched to MIG with gas, so the wire's age is unknown to me. I guess I need to stop buying 10 pound rolls or get something to keep the wire out of the atmosphere. Maybe a mini refrigerator with a light bulb.

 

[Gary Fowler]

Yep, it was the wire. Switched to an unopened roll that I bought from the man that sold me my first welder (2 years ago), and it welds just fine. He's since switched to MIG with gas, so the wire's age is unknown to me. I guess I need to stop buying 10 pound rolls or get something to keep the wire out of the atmosphere. Maybe a mini refrigerator with a light bulb.

You could start by placing them in a ziplock bag that you have squeezed all the air out of. Even better if you have some small packs of dessicant to place in the bag with the spool of wire.

 

[California]

What did the experienced welders here conclude, about how long flux core wire remains good?

I don't weld a lot so I use 2 lb rolls and buy one or two at a time. It may be months between projects. Extra rolls are stored in an ammo can with dessicant.

I'm thinking about going to 10 lb rolls but that might sit in the welder 3 years or so, in an unheated barn. I see rust on the hubs of unused cutoff wheels in a 10-pack that I got several years ago so there is some humidity around. The simple blue-tarp cover over the welder in the barn isn't going to prevent all humidity there.

Is it reasonable to buy 10 lb spools of flux core wire, knowing the last part of the roll might not be used for 3 or more years?

Retired construction auditor here - Cost analysis: The math shows the final 1/3 of the 10 lb roll is free compared to using 2 lb rolls. But if I discard the 10 lb roll before reaching that final 1/3, then using 2 lb rolls would have been cheaper and might have made better welds.

Any advice?

 

[Yomax4]

What did the experienced welders here conclude, about how long flux core wire remains good?

I don't weld a lot so I use 2 lb rolls and buy one or two at a time. It may be months between projects. Extra rolls are stored in an ammo can with dessicant.

I'm thinking about going to 10 lb rolls but that might sit in the welder 3 years or so, in an unheated barn. I see rust on the hubs of unused cutoff wheels in a 10-pack that I got several years ago so there is some humidity around. The simple blue-tarp cover over the welder in the barn isn't going to prevent all humidity there.

Is it reasonable to buy 10 lb spools of flux core wire, knowing the last part of the roll might not be used for 3 or more years?

Retired construction auditor here - Cost analysis: The math shows the final 1/3 of the 10 lb roll is free compared to using 2 lb rolls. But if I discard the 10 lb roll before reaching that final 1/3, then using 2 lb rolls would have been cheaper and might have made better welds.

Any advice?

You are doing the right thing by storing it with the desiccant. Humidity is the killer. it's all about storage. I remember a company who moved all of their cored wire to the corner and along a damp wall. When sold it looked good but was full of worm track and porosity. If you decide to go with 10# spools that will go long periods with little use I'd suggest taking it in the house when not being used. I've sold a LOT of cored wire in my career from Lincoln, ESAB and on down. One thing to consider when buying is whether or not the wire was baked. Cheap wire is not baked and suffers from bad press as it should. Baked wire stored correctly lasts a couple years before it degrades. When buying gasless wire I really promote 71T-11. The TGS is marginal and not a good indicator of how well gasless wire can run.

 

[Yomax4]

What did the experienced welders here conclude, about how long flux core wire remains good?

I don't weld a lot so I use 2 lb rolls and buy one or two at a time. It may be months between projects. Extra rolls are stored in an ammo can with dessicant.

I'm thinking about going to 10 lb rolls but that might sit in the welder 3 years or so, in an unheated barn. I see rust on the hubs of unused cutoff wheels in a 10-pack that I got several years ago so there is some humidity around. The simple blue-tarp cover over the welder in the barn isn't going to prevent all humidity there.

Is it reasonable to buy 10 lb spools of flux core wire, knowing the last part of the roll might not be used for 3 or more years?

Retired construction auditor here - Cost analysis: The math shows the final 1/3 of the 10 lb roll is free compared to using 2 lb rolls. But if I discard the 10 lb roll before reaching that final 1/3, then using 2 lb rolls would have been cheaper and might have made better welds.

Any advice?

Another thing that doesn't get discussed much in the forum wire world is Cast and Helix. Both contribute to poor wire feeding and consumables wear. To test your cast just carefully let 2-3 loops of wire off your spool and snip it. Gently lay it on the floor and measure the loop width. AWS allows 17" but that is a poor spec. 25-35 is best for liners and tip wear and overall feedability and automation. With a 2# you will likely have a 12-15" cast where a 25# would be more like 20-30". Helix is the how far the ends of your loops lift off the floor. 3/8" would be tops otherwise you will see extra tip and liner wear. Cheap wire will surely suffer from poor cast and helix and most folks don't catch it and end up paying for liners that cost more than their wire. Tips too. Just a couple cool things to think about.

 

[California]

...Baked wire stored correctly lasts a couple years before it degrades.

Decent wire lasts only a couple of years? Considering my storage location in the barn at near outdoor humidity and my infrequent welding, that argues for 2 lb rolls then.

Dismounting a 10 lb roll to take back to my home in town between projects would be too much PIA. Not just the dismount and transit but then the welder would never be ready for unexpected farm repairs - which is one of the reasons I need it. So for me, continuing to buy the little rolls and having fresh wire, makes more sense. Thanks for the advice.

 

[California]

Another thing that doesn't get discussed much in the forum wire world is Cast and Helix. Both contribute to poor wire feeding and consumables wear. To test your cast just carefully let 2-3 loops of wire off your spool and snip it. Gently lay it on the floor and measure the loop width. AWS allows 17" but that is a poor spec. 25-35 is best for liners and tip wear and overall feedability and automation. With a 2# you will likely have a 12-15" cast where a 25# would be more like 20-30". Helix is the how far the ends of your loops lift off the floor. 3/8" would be tops otherwise you will see extra tip and liner wear. Cheap wire will surely suffer from poor cast and helix and most folks don't catch it and end up paying for liners that cost more than their wire. Tips too. Just a couple cool things to think about.

Wow! Important stuff I never imagined. Those sound like significant criteria for understanding the quality of wire.

I wonder if I weld enough to wear out a liner. In commercial use, how many lbs of wire can be expected between liner replacements?

 

[California]

Another thing that doesn't get discussed much in the forum wire world is Cast and Helix. Both contribute to poor wire feeding and consumables wear. To test your cast just carefully let 2-3 loops of wire off your spool and snip it. Gently lay it on the floor and measure the loop width. AWS allows 17" but that is a poor spec. 25-35 is best for liners and tip wear and overall feedability and automation. With a 2# you will likely have a 12-15" cast where a 25# would be more like 20-30". Helix is the how far the ends of your loops lift off the floor. 3/8" would be tops otherwise you will see extra tip and liner wear. Cheap wire will surely suffer from poor cast and helix and most folks don't catch it and end up paying for liners that cost more than their wire. Tips too.

Unsuitable cast, like this photo below?

I'm using up the wire that the previous owner included with the HF MIG-180 that I bought used. I finished a roll of Hobart -GS that I had bought previously, that worked well with my previous Century-135 and then worked well with this MIG-180, and put in this Blue Demon that came with the used welder. It was a sealed roll. I didn't let it rats-nest.

This wouldn't feed like the Hobart. Sometimes it would slow or stall the feed motor causing uneven beads. After the second time it stalled and burned back into the tip I took it out and put in INE -GS. That restored the smooth feeding and I finished the project.

I wonder if the previous owner sold the welder out of frustration that it wouldn't feed properly, when his real problem was the various wires he tried. I measured this wire as 4 inch Cast and a half inch Helix, near as I could tell.




Also, do you recognize this? It's the last of the spools that were included with the used welder.

 

[Yomax4]

The 2# spools are kind of exempt from the cast test. Especially cored wire but what you show here has a lot to do with feeding issues. Like trying to run a slinky through your mig gun.